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[*] Posted on 10-17-2005 at 03:05 PM Reply With Quote
PLEASE READ



I just wanted to vent some of my frustration here.

I have been using XMB Garage now for a long time, and I feel like a pretty close friend to WormHole. I am one of his preferred customers meaning I don't mind paying for his services for my forums.

I am so glad he got the pay system implemented for this board. Nothing in life is free and Worm had done literally $1,000 of dollars worth of free work for not 100's, but 1000's of people who use XMB.

I am now getting the since than Worm is just fed up he has reached his point...the bucket is close to running over...with all the drama recently and when everyone just wants something for free...why should he continue at all?

If some of you don't start stepping up to the plate and paying for your hacks...If I were him I would honestly just shut this site down.

Let you free loaders figure out some where else to get your boards work done...which is another thing that pisses me off...you guys to cheap to pay $1.00-$5.00 for your board modifications, will just move on and look for someone else to mooch free work off of until that persons site disappears and then you are on the move again.

The board hack prices are not unreasonable at all...it is the cheapest programming mod installation on the net believe me I have paid $300 dollars for a designer to design one Flash banner...so this is a call to all of you who are loyal and loyal to XMB Garage....

Now is the time to step up to the plate like WormHole and XMB Garage has done for you so many times.

I can honestly say that my service here at XMB Garage is better than any service I get in my daily life in the real world. I put my request in for a board hack or mod and with in no time it is done.

Other places on the web I pay for programming and site work if I get it done in a week I am happy.


I will sum this rant up with this;

If XMB Garage were gone tomorrow what would you do and who could you truly depend on to work on your boards?

For those of you who are going to come back with this;

I am just a kid and I don't have money for board hacks....well, you are truly a huge part of the problem....nothing in life is free....I bet you have money for your new $80 dollar pair of tennis shoes don't you?

Or maybe even your cell phone bill every month.

If you don't have $1.00-$5.00 to pay for a board hack


GET OFF THE INTERNET UNTIL YOU DO!!!

You do not deserve to have a site/forum on the net...the net is a business and people use it to make money...if you have a site than like anything else...it will and should cost money to maintain it...if you don't have any money to maintain it shut it down NOW!!

You are killing great support sites like XMB Garage :soapbox:




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[*] Posted on 10-17-2005 at 03:19 PM Reply With Quote


Totally agree with you. People need to start stepping up, so this site can go on. Otherwize we will be forced to close the site down. That's your choice, people. We need you to help keep this site up.



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[*] Posted on 10-17-2005 at 09:10 PM Reply With Quote


To be totally honest from what I have seen over the last 13 months since the donation button has been in place I'm not going to hold my breath. We've been a paid site now for a little more than an month and just take a look at the stats calendar and look at the number of requests. Sad, is all I can say. :rolleyes:



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[*] Posted on 10-17-2005 at 09:57 PM Reply With Quote


well as long as this place is up you can always count on me i luv this place and ive been here a short time the service here is unbelievably wonderfull. I would hate to see this site go down. dman I agree with you 100%.
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[*] Posted on 10-17-2005 at 10:20 PM Reply With Quote


There are sheep and there are wolves. And I say "BAAA" to you. Thank you very much for your support both in hack requests and words. It's just very boring anymore now with going from an average of 15 to 20 requests a day down to 0 or 1. But that also means to those who pay get almost immediate service since I'm not back logged everyday like it used to be. And at that time with 4 installers there was no reason for things to get backed up and with me having to do the majority still. Hopefully more and more people will follow your lead along with the few others who have been supportive.

An improbably but technically feasible scenario: If all 1350 members purchased 1 $1 hack once a month it would generate $1350 a month. So as you can see by that example it wouldn't necessarily be all that painful to the community to step up. So it's not an impossibility to achieve. It's just a seemingly impossible feat to rally the masses. And if the community can save and support this site it will only encourage me to continue and come up with more things to offer. But the ball has to start rolling and continue to roll before anything else can happen. And the thing is that installers and developers would earn money as well. But, as I have seen over the course of time, they didn't really want to work as a team to get things rolling and yet elect to go to other sites and do the same thing for free. And that's where we differ as I believe what we do deserves some compensation. So we'll see what happens.




PLEASE DO NOT U2U ME FOR GENERAL SUPPORT ISSUES!!!

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[*] Posted on 10-17-2005 at 10:51 PM Reply With Quote


Things will get better- I keep telling Jim that.We are simply experiencing the growing pains that come with changing from a free site to a pay site.Fresh new "paying" blood will start to trickle in and what happened here over the last month will be but a distant memory- I guarantee it :up:
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[*] Posted on 10-18-2005 at 09:11 AM Reply With Quote


i love xmbg :) I try to donate when I can and I have no problem requesting and paying when I do need hacks installed. I dont know what I would do without xmbg. I agree with everything said.



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[*] Posted on 10-18-2005 at 10:01 AM Reply With Quote


I totally agree. I used to be one of the people who ended up making more mistakes and I feel terrible for that. Wormhole - there is no amount of words that I can speak that could express how deep my gratitude for you, XMBG, and the rest of the staff here is, but I will do my bet to help out in any way, shape, or form.

I will try my best to see what I can donate for XMBG as it is a favorite place of mine.

I completely support any decision Wormhole makes and am with him every step of the way - if you need anything, you know how to contact me.




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[*] Posted on 10-18-2005 at 11:38 AM Reply With Quote


I'm 100% agreed with you guys. XMBG offers a great services for our forums, and thats why you would see me that much often online on this forum because i like XMBG, even tho i idle just to be here :D.
XMBG keeps a list of every single hack for xmb forums and you wont be able to find a collection of hacks in any other xmb hack sites.

I've used XMBG service and i paid for it and i will be happy to pay again if needed, so every one should pay their own fees for using the service, no where is free.

My respect to Wormhole and those who keeps alive XMBG.




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[*] Posted on 10-18-2005 at 12:21 PM Reply With Quote


Have you ever noticed when a thread like this pops up that we only here from the ones who have donated or paid? And that's fine as I know who has and who hasn't and it does show the support that is there. And have you noticed that now most of the support threads, when there are any, are mostly from non-payers who decided they don't want to pay and install hacks themselves and still come here for support because they screwed up the installation? And if you can't install hacks it doesn't make sense to attempt to do so on a live board unless now you want to pay for repairs. And it just sickens me to see people whose boards I have hacked, or the other installers have hacked, constantly being trashed now because people don't want to spend a few bucks to have hacks installed properly and their boards kept in proper working order. As the saying goes, "You get what you pay for". And they will go to the sites where support is not really a priority and they will get to you when they feel like it. For those of you who know the difference between fast, prompt support and support where you have to wait because it is not a priority at other sites to be responsive you will pay because it's a value to you.



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[*] Posted on 10-18-2005 at 05:40 PM Reply With Quote


I thought the board was completely closed off to non payers :puzzled:
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[*] Posted on 10-18-2005 at 05:46 PM Reply With Quote


Not yet. Haven't been able to get the subscriptions completed and in place before Guldan left. But, I'm talking to him now and he's back. So as soon as he gets this last thing for this paying job done we'll get the subscriptions finished and in place. Then the only people that will be here will be subscribers. I just chased off that worthless POS John Briggs who insists on constantly registering new names and who knows for what reasons. I've got him under at least a half dozen names. I have had to chase him and Adam both off of here because they want to play these kiddy games. That's right all you non-paying people those are the kind of people you have giving you support. So soon not even you people will be able to access this site at all. So just do yourselves a favor and stay away as I seriously doubt you will pay the subscription fee to just lurk and report back to your gods.



PLEASE DO NOT U2U ME FOR GENERAL SUPPORT ISSUES!!!

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[*] Posted on 10-18-2005 at 08:05 PM Reply With Quote


Well,

Here is a little story....my VERY first XMB board went online in early 2003. It now has over 1,600 members...Worm will testify to this.

I got the board from XMB directly paid them I think it was $24.00 to install it because I didn't have the time to screw with it.

I then had the board for close to a year as a virgin board that I didn't even know how to change and modify the theme to match my site...so I really didn't like the board and hated the XMB theme it came with. When I had time I would look around the XMB Corp site and read and read on how to modify my board. I finally figured it out...and at least got the theme working.

In that time lurking around the XMB boards I found a site by a guy who was writing his own hacks..he went by freewheel46 or some thing like that. He has his own XMB forum site and did some great board add ons like a Classifieds ad system which I tried to get him install on my board.

I would post to his forum email and email him...tell him I would pay for him to write me custom modules and he would just ignore me. I finally got a couple hacks done...installed about 5 hacks myself...and then finally stumbled onto Worm Hole when he opened XMB Garage....I was estactic...and immediately got him doing board work for my site..

The first thing we figured out was the hacks done by myself had things so screwed up Worm spent like 5hrs all night one night just to fix my forum....and once again he did all that work for *FREE*

I promised I would NEVER let anyone else touch my board accept for Worm....he has been my installer ever since.

He has now installed 3 other forums for 3 other websites since my first XMB forum.

This is my newest one that is only a week old yesterday
 http://www.myrover.net/forums

My 2 biggest competitors are all using Vbulliten for their boards which cost like $124.00 dollars for a single license I believe if I'm not mistaken...I know it isn't free.

Well, I can tell you people who are members of my 2 competitors sites and those who have now visited my site are truly excited about my new site....

Why you ask?

Because XMB BLOWS Vbulliten away in my opinion....the custom chat...and now the new version of the members map is awesome ...I already have emails from National Vendors who are interested in buying ad banner spots on our site...From Iterco, BFG Tires...to other Land Rover Retailers.

This is truly exciting to me as the site is only a week old, but is already the buzz...and one reason is because of the XMB Forum and the work Worm has done to the board.

Nuff Said!! :yes::up:




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[*] Posted on 10-18-2005 at 08:16 PM Reply With Quote


And dman has paid for every hack installation since then. That was almost a year and a half ago. When his requests would come in his would go straight to the top over the rest unless I was stuck on a project for the time being like a board upgrade/reinstalling of hacks. But you pay you'll get premium service.

And to further explain things for Shawna, when the subscriptions are put into place I will totally clear out the members table. This way all members will be subscribers and there will be no more lurkers. When Guldan and I get to finishing the subscriptions up I'll see if there will be a way to keep the old members table and for those of you who are currently members and become subscribers see if we can't transfer your original data to the new members table so you can retain all your stats and data.

And as the site is now all viewing of content is prohibited to all guests. This way all the content of the site will be for subscribers only. I've seen on scan's topbb site where poor little James is still crying about me kicking him out of here that he's crying because xmbg is closed to guests. Well, I believe that if you're going to pay for subscriptions then only members should have access to the site's content. This way things will be a little more exclusive for you and protected from prying eyes.




PLEASE DO NOT U2U ME FOR GENERAL SUPPORT ISSUES!!!

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[*] Posted on 10-18-2005 at 11:09 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by WormHole
And dman has paid for every hack installation since then. That was almost a year and a half ago. When his requests would come in his would go straight to the top over the rest unless I was stuck on a project for the time being like a board upgrade/reinstalling of hacks. But you pay you'll get premium service.

And to further explain things for Shawna, when the subscriptions are put into place I will totally clear out the members table. This way all members will be subscribers and there will be no more lurkers. When Guldan and I get to finishing the subscriptions up I'll see if there will be a way to keep the old members table and for those of you who are currently members and become subscribers see if we can't transfer your original data to the new members table so you can retain all your stats and data.

And as the site is now all viewing of content is prohibited to all guests. This way all the content of the site will be for subscribers only. I've seen on scan's topbb site where poor little James is still crying about me kicking him out of here that he's crying because xmbg is closed to guests. Well, I believe that if you're going to pay for subscriptions then only members should have access to the site's content. This way things will be a little more exclusive for you and protected from prying eyes.



Man membership VIP status, now that I really like...I do hope you guys can transfer all our old data so we don't start new, but if you can't no biggie...but great move...to dump the lurkers.

Got to pay to play :thumbsup:




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[*] Posted on 10-19-2005 at 02:11 AM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by WormHole
Not yet. Haven't been able to get the subscriptions completed and in place before Guldan left. But, I'm talking to him now and he's back. So as soon as he gets this last thing for this paying job done we'll get the subscriptions finished and in place. Then the only people that will be here will be subscribers.


Wow thats a bit rough :smash:

What about the members here like myself that visit most xmb related sites to browse and get tips and try to help others out now and again, but have no intention of paying a subscription? or have no interest or taken sides in the politics between various other xmb forums and their staff.

The biggest turn off for a website is having to register just to view any content to get some idea of what the sites about and the even bigger turn off is having to pay for something that can be found on many other sites for free. :soapbox:
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[*] Posted on 10-19-2005 at 10:22 AM Reply With Quote


All I can say Tom is tough. I'm tired of breaking my back to serve ungrateful people when I'd rather give more personal and better quality support to people who value what I/we do here. Anyone who's been around this site long enough knows the original intent all along has been to be a paid site. If you don't pay the subscription then it's your loss. I've been doing this for free for 4 1/2 years and the last 1 1/2 year it was taking 18 hours of my life, 7 days a week, 4 weeks a month and 52 weeks a year with no time off. Do you work that hard at your job for free? I think not. The things that made xmbg standout from the rest are as listed below:

1. The main xmb site stopped hack support a couple of years back and forced it all to xmbhacks.

2. xmbhacks died as the owners and staff didn't care and even stopped maintaining the site.

3. Other xmb support sites were too slow in responding to people's questions/problems.

4. No one else offered installation services, transfer services, upgrade services, etc.

5. When we started our own developement, and before all the trouble last month, we had outputted more hacks in 2 or 3 months than xmbx has in their whole entire existence. People are still asking for and are still waiting for the Calendar and Download Center of which we will get on to developing when we get some other things out of the way.

6. I don't believe in making people wait, let's see now it's been a year and a half that the 2 hacks mentioned in number 5 have been "in the works".

7. When people (at these other sites) work for free they don't have enough incentive to get things done quickly in either developement or support.

8. By subscribing you'll get more personal attention. Your hacks are installed very quickly and your questions will be answered sooner rather than having to wait until someone feels like getting around to it. This is a main reason why, before all the troublemakers started their crap, people would come here after going to another site. They don't want to wait or to be made to feel like their issues don't matter.

9. Most people feel that all things in life should be free and they take up a lot of time away from the people who are willing to pay.

10. Developers at other sites will not get paid for their work and efforts. They get paid here.

Need more?

And as stated before, if people are going to pay then the content should be exclusive to them, not to the ones who don't contribute anything and just suck life out of everything. And if you're using xmb software then there is no big mystery as to what xmbg is about.

And, sure, you can find some of what we do on other sites. But the price you have to pay for it there, as mentioned above, is long waits, people who don't give a rat's ass really about helping you until they feel like it. Or waiting for long times for hack developement.

And another reason for guest denial is because people like the owner of a certain site has been caught here scouring the hack developement requests for ideas because they can't come up with their own so they have to go and steal them. And this same site owner in the last 2 years has had 4 different sites, he has announced many times he's leaving the community for good and never does. Plus they have nothing better to do with their life, along with members of his staff, but to continue to register here under multiple names to cause trouble or to scoop ideas. Besides, if there's financial support it helps to ensure the site to stay around, be more productive, offer more to it's members and to stimulate more services and features in the future.

Still need more?




PLEASE DO NOT U2U ME FOR GENERAL SUPPORT ISSUES!!!

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[*] Posted on 10-19-2005 at 08:37 PM Reply With Quote


Hmm, well the only reason im not paying for installations is because I figured out how to do them myself. I do thank you though from the start for doin my installs so im not being un gratefull because I am grateful for the help in the begining. But I only stay helpless for so long then I tend to figure stuff out, now I can install hacks and screw with templates. Anway good luck with everything.
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[*] Posted on 10-19-2005 at 09:12 PM Reply With Quote


And that's fine Stretch. I don't have any problem with people learning to do their own hack installations. But XMBG has always been for the people who can't or don't want to mess with it. But I've also learned that many people we installed for could install their own hacks but took advantage of the service to have someone else do the installs for them. But XMBG will always be for the people who can't install or who will be willing to pay for the service. And, to be quite frank, I don't care if we lose most of the members. Most are inactive anyways, several were troublemakers and many just don't want to pay. That's fine, too. They just won't get anything more from me. Just look at my installation stats in the panel to the left. That's a lot of requests, a lot of people and a lot of hacks to install in a year and half. And the majority was all done for free. Plus I did this stuff for years before I started xmbg at xmb, xmbhacks and all the other present and past xmb support sites. There comes a time when enough is enough. I would rather provide better quality service to a few than have my ass run into the ground by the masses. So I'm not worried about too much. And when we get to production of hacks again we'll have exclusives that will only be available here.

And there are people who don't know how to transfer there boards to different services, which we provide. And there are people who definitely do not backup their sites which will be a service available down the road. Sure you can go elsewhere and post your questions and get some downloads (thanks to my db being stolen) but you won't get installs or other services that we offer like upgrades and board installations. So, as I said, I'm not too worried.




PLEASE DO NOT U2U ME FOR GENERAL SUPPORT ISSUES!!!

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[*] Posted on 10-20-2005 at 08:19 AM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by WormHole
And that's fine Stretch. I don't have any problem with people learning to do their own hack installations. But XMBG has always been for the people who can't or don't want to mess with it. But I've also learned that many people we installed for could install their own hacks but took advantage of the service to have someone else do the installs for them. But XMBG will always be for the people who can't install or who will be willing to pay for the service. And, to be quite frank, I don't care if we lose most of the members. Most are inactive anyways, several were troublemakers and many just don't want to pay. That's fine, too. They just won't get anything more from me. Just look at my installation stats in the panel to the left. That's a lot of requests, a lot of people and a lot of hacks to install in a year and half. And the majority was all done for free. Plus I did this stuff for years before I started xmbg at xmb, xmbhacks and all the other present and past xmb support sites. There comes a time when enough is enough. I would rather provide better quality service to a few than have my ass run into the ground by the masses. So I'm not worried about too much. And when we get to production of hacks again we'll have exclusives that will only be available here.

And there are people who don't know how to transfer there boards to different services, which we provide. And there are people who definitely do not backup their sites which will be a service available down the road. Sure you can go elsewhere and post your questions and get some downloads (thanks to my db being stolen) but you won't get installs or other services that we offer like upgrades and board installations. So, as I said, I'm not too worried.




If I really wanted to I could learn how to install my hacks myself, but again I use the web to make money as it is a huge part of my business. Running my business takes time...and having to go to avendor like XMBG is a great asset to my business and gives me time to concentrate on other more important things than cut and coping code into board templates.

If I were Worm once the subscripion platform is in place or if people who use free services and screw up their boards doing their own hacks....I would charge a premium of $20.00 dollars and hour for board repairs.

Nobody should have to work as hard as the XMBG staff does for free. If you are doing your own board mods that's great but you're not doing them for 200 other people's boards.

The free sites will disapear...they always do....I remember my first board the biggest support hack forum was Freewill46 and he was one of the gurus that had his own thing going....his site is now GONE.

And from what I have been told he has left XMB all together...so good luck with your board and good riddance....once the doors close don't let them hit you in the ***, but if you find a tuff cruel world out there don't come begging to be let back in.

Good luck in your venture :thumbsup:

Oh and Worm...thanks man for getting that new board installed for my client yesterday they are VERY happy with the look of the board.

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Now you kids go find some other street to play in ours is closed to through traffic at the present because there are people doing business here and making money, which is what makes the world go 'round...you should try it sometime. :yes: :up:


OH and I would like to say we just picked up our first two big corporate sponsors yesterday for MyRover.net


Our new paid sponsors are;

Land Rover Vendors and part suppliers
Atlantic British - Rover Parts
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Rover Over - Used parts
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Two paid sponsors in one week....I hope we can pull in about 10 more. :jivin:




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[*] Posted on 10-20-2005 at 09:27 AM Reply With Quote


WormHole, I found that I had a little extra money that I can donate to XMBG. I'm glad to know that it will be put to good use and is going for a good cause. Thanks for everything!! XMBG is the solid backbone for XMB itself!!



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